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  #1  
Old 28th February 2006, 10:54 AM
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Scottmoose Scottmoose is offline
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Default Seas Kits

I note that WD are now selling the Seas kit speakers, particularly Thor, and wondered if anyone could make some suggestions -Peter, your views would be much appreciated on this one as I've actually thought on and off about buying these, but with increasing uneasiness. Given that in this month's HFW there's a note that there's a new WD floor-stander with the 10" Seas driver (oh, I'm looking forward to that!), which to go for? The technical information on Thor says it's -3db point is at 44Hz. The response graph provided clearly indicates that these things begin to roll off at 200Hz, and are some 15db (or more) down at approximately 44Hz, anechoic, and the models I've run in Martin King's seminal MathCad worksheets agree. Hense my uneasiness. Would I be better, for rock music, with the soon-to-emerge WD floorstander, or is Thor still worth considering? I've finally got my single-driver bug out of my system, sold on my horns, and I need something that'll do justice to PJ Harvey at Glastonbury 1995, and also June Tabor.

Regards
Scott
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Old 28th February 2006, 11:28 AM
Richard Richard is offline
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Default Re: Seas Kits

Welcome back to the real world . Can't answer your specific question but I do empathise. I erred from TLs once and had to build another pair.

I took Greenday, Artic Monkeys and ColdPlay to Bristol Show and nothing played them well. These are superb recordings of very tight bands (OK you may or may not like them) and sound fantastic on big TL speakers, the nearest thing to a live show at home. Considering these are some of the biggest selling bands in the UK at the mo I think it's a sad reflection of the hifi industry when they sound better on a 5.1 Creative computer sys.

Rich
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Old 28th February 2006, 01:15 PM
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petercom petercom is offline
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Default Re: Seas Kits

There's no simple answer to this (would you really expect one) but we can discuss some of the details.

Firstly forget what you see on anechoic responses. The ones for the WD25A in this month's HFW show similar performance but are not indicative of what happens in-room (as those who visited the show will testify). However I will stick by my statement that a good bigun outperforms a good littleun, so I'd stake my hat on it that you would prefer the 10" bass unit design to Thor.

The other aspect the WD25A proved, most successfully, at the show was how the aperiodic principle really does get rid of resonance problems. Most of the other rooms had terrible bass boom at certain frequencies and this was usually down to the use of bass reflex speakers. When we played bass guitar or double bass you could hear every note cleanly. The floorstander next month will expand on that principle.

TLs can also be made to be fairly resonance free if built and damped correctly. We'll be looking at a TL kit as soon as we can.

As for Richard's comments he and I did discuss the characteristics of his room which is fairly lively compared to the overdamped hotel rooms we have to put up with at shows. He also wanted to sit further away from the speakers (it's difficult to get a 'live' sound in a hotel room - simple, less energetic, musical arrangements tend to sound best).
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Old 28th February 2006, 03:45 PM
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Default Re: Seas Kits

Thanks to you both for the interesting replys. Richard -you'll get no disagreement from me about the state things have got to when big-selling bands sound better through a vile set of tinny little pieces of plastic!

Peter -nope, I wasn't expecting a simple answer (wouldn't life be boring if there was one though?), and many thanks for your advice, it's very much appreciated. Regarding your suggestion that I'd prefer the big 10" driver in (one of) your WD enclosures, I was beginning to suspect as much frankly. I like big drivers anyway, and I'm particularly looking forward to the prospective floorstanding enclosure -is that going to be aperiodic too by the way? Hope so. It's been great to see this type of enclosure make a comeback after so long in the doldrums, and I've followed your HFW articles with great interest. The only other one I know off-hand is that Omega Speakers job with the B200 full-range unit and a couple of Scan Speak vents.

Best
Scott
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Old 1st March 2006, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: Seas Kits

Yes, it will be aperiodic as this is what the driver is designed for. It is interesting to see designs where aperiodic vents have been bunged into any old design on a wing and a prayer. Ideally you should design the driver to suit the cabinet loading, and that is what we did with the A26RE4 bass unit. It also helps to design the aperiodic vent around the driver/cabinet performance.
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Old 1st March 2006, 03:35 PM
steve s steve s is offline
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Default Re: Seas Kits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
Welcome back to the real world . Can't answer your specific question but I do empathise. I erred from TLs once and had to build another pair.

I took Greenday, Artic Monkeys and ColdPlay to Bristol Show and nothing played them well. These are superb recordings of very tight bands (OK you may or may not like them) and sound fantastic on big TL speakers, the nearest thing to a live show at home. Considering these are some of the biggest selling bands in the UK at the mo I think it's a sad reflection of the hifi industry when they sound better on a 5.1 Creative computer sys.

Rich
i have found that with better equipment these bands can sound a bit thin and sound 'better', with a bit of distortion.. but thats not whats on the recording.. they are very clean if you know what i mean,
i would say the problem is more that people have mental picture of what the music should sound like.. and if it don't it must be the replay equipment's fault...

and i would be bold enough to say.. 'good' horns with good drivers are as close as you get to the real world... I'll now run for cover now..

cheers steve
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Old 1st March 2006, 05:41 PM
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Default Re: Seas Kits

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve s
i have found that with better equipment these bands can sound a bit thin and sound 'better', with a bit of distortion.. but thats not whats on the recording.. they are very clean if you know what i mean,
i would say the problem is more that people have mental picture of what the music should sound like.. and if it don't it must be the replay equipment's fault...

and i would be bold enough to say.. 'good' horns with good drivers are as close as you get to the real world... I'll now run for cover now..

cheers steve
What I heard from Richard's discs was direct injection from the instruments into the ADC and then to the mixer and very close miked vocals, plus considerable dynamic compression, all of which are typical of today's pop recordings. No doubt Richard's speakers and lively listening room brings these recordings 'to life'. In a highly damped hotel room sitting close to the speakers it was all a bit aggressive and hard.

Good drivers using good horns do, indeed, give the amplifier a lot of headroom and move air in a way that allows the dynamics (where they exist on the recording) to be felt as well as heard. The trouble is that good horns are few and far between...
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Old 1st March 2006, 07:59 PM
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Paul Barker Paul Barker is offline
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Default Re: Seas Kits

Peter, have you had opportunity to hear Bruce Edgar's Tightans? They are marvelous, and his sub woofer looks like a mini cathedral orghan, but what a sound. Only time I heard better base was when I photographed a wedding at Westminster Cathedral.

The Tightans are but uggly and much too big, Bruce doesn't even have a pair at home. But they are where it's at.
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  #9  
Old 1st March 2006, 09:14 PM
Will Cowen
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Default Re: Seas Kits

They have a Faulty Towers interior feel about them.
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  #10  
Old 1st March 2006, 09:19 PM
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Paul Barker Paul Barker is offline
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Default Re: Seas Kits

Ray is supposed to be helping me make a pair!!!

Come on Ray pull your socks up.
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