World-Designs-Forum  

Go Back   World-Designs-Forum > DIY Projects > Sources
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Gallery Today's Posts Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Sources Your DIY source designs (turntables etc.)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 28th June 2019, 04:51 PM
Black Stuart Black Stuart is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: France
Posts: 1,148
Default Re: PLZ pre-preamp

Hi Andy,
thanks for sharing the listening test. I forgot to add the PLZ caps to the list of Panasonic electros for my two KD990 decks, silly as they would have added all of 1.50 to the total.

I have a Talk Electronics MC3 phono stage and so can set up the Pickering to match the work done by others, especially on Audiogon. I shall definitely try the PLZ if only to confirm your findings.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 28th June 2019, 04:58 PM
bob orbell bob orbell is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: kettering northants.
Posts: 1,801
Default Re: PLZ pre-preamp

Hi Andy, Stuart, with regard to the PLZ being noisy, I don't know how you connected the ground terminal, but I found connecting the arm lead to the PLZ only produced total silence, if I connected to the Phono then I had noise. Bob
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 30th June 2019, 05:23 PM
bikerhifinut bikerhifinut is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Penrith, Cumbria
Posts: 1,016
Default Re: PLZ pre-preamp

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob orbell View Post
Hi Andy, Stuart, with regard to the PLZ being noisy, I don't know how you connected the ground terminal, but I found connecting the arm lead to the PLZ only produced total silence, if I connected to the Phono then I had noise. Bob
Ah yes Bob, when I talk about noise in this context I meant the hiss from the device rather than hum, which as you say is absent. Earthing isn't much of an issue with battery driven devices I find, and the standard Rega method of earthing down the LH arm lead works fine.
Merely an observation and relative to valves its pretty darn quiet, it's only when stacked against an up to date SS design any hiss is noticeably more and at normal to very loud listening volumes its still less than any noise off the record itself. i.e. insignificant.
Cheers.

A.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 2nd July 2019, 10:23 PM
Black Stuart Black Stuart is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: France
Posts: 1,148
Default Re: PLZ pre-preamp

So Andy,
waha you havn't said a word about it how musical the devise is. I have a Talk Electronics MC3 which is far superior to any Rega gear, that's not the point - how does the PLZ sound - musically? that's the question.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 3rd July 2019, 11:30 PM
bikerhifinut bikerhifinut is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Penrith, Cumbria
Posts: 1,016
Default Re: PLZ pre-preamp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Stuart View Post
So Andy,
waha you havn't said a word about it how musical the devise is. I have a Talk Electronics MC3 which is far superior to any Rega gear, that's not the point - how does the PLZ sound - musically? that's the question.
You say the talk electronics is superior to any Rega gear? I can't of course offer any opinion on that, not having heard the talk electronics amp. I will say that in my OPINION (my capitals), Rega electronics take some beating in their price band, and Terry Batemans RIAA designs are generally right on the button.

As to this musicality thing, I am not really sure what all that means. I will hear very differently to you so I think any subjective opinion on that isn't really worth all that much. I have played about with this Pickering device with a fairly modest silicon based front end and with the WD Phono3 MM input and in both cases it sounded pretty good. I would say it goes a way towards confirming my feelings that step up transformers aren't always the answer with a Moving coil cartridge. Theres a definite feeling of a bit more up at the top end without it feeling "edgy" to my way of hearing. The background noise is far enough down for it to be inaudible in real world listening and didnt get in the way of the music coming off the LP. In short it works very effectively at its job of raising the microvolts output of the Ortofon Quintet to the millivolts required of a Magnetic Cartridge input.
Just bung a couple of AA cells in and decide for yourself is my thinking.

A.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 4th July 2019, 11:38 AM
Richard Richard is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Notts
Posts: 4,788
Default Re: PLZ pre-preamp

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerhifinut View Post
You say the talk electronics is superior to any Rega gear? I can't of course offer any opinion on that, not having heard the talk electronics amp. I will say that in my OPINION (my capitals), Rega electronics take some beating in their price band, and Terry Batemans RIAA designs are generally right on the button.

As to this musicality thing, I am not really sure what all that means. I will hear very differently to you so I think any subjective opinion on that isn't really worth all that much. I have played about with this Pickering device with a fairly modest silicon based front end and with the WD Phono3 MM input and in both cases it sounded pretty good. I would say it goes a way towards confirming my feelings that step up transformers aren't always the answer with a Moving coil cartridge. Theres a definite feeling of a bit more up at the top end without it feeling "edgy" to my way of hearing. The background noise is far enough down for it to be inaudible in real world listening and didnt get in the way of the music coming off the LP. In short it works very effectively at its job of raising the microvolts output of the Ortofon Quintet to the millivolts required of a Magnetic Cartridge input.
Just bung a couple of AA cells in and decide for yourself is my thinking.

A.

Yes very subjective given the various combinations of equipment and set up of a vinyl replay system, unless there's obviously something wrong or a confirmed problem found on test that everyone would agree upon.

Strange how things change, when moving coils made a come back in the 70's transformers were then considered the cheap and chearful way to get them into a MM input. A good head amp was usually preferred. Since the later valve renaissance of the 90's it seems transformers have regained popularity in some areas albeit at a cost.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 4th July 2019, 11:49 PM
bikerhifinut bikerhifinut is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Penrith, Cumbria
Posts: 1,016
Default Re: PLZ pre-preamp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
Yes very subjective given the various combinations of equipment and set up of a vinyl replay system, unless there's obviously something wrong or a confirmed problem found on test that everyone would agree upon.

Strange how things change, when moving coils made a come back in the 70's transformers were then considered the cheap and chearful way to get them into a MM input. A good head amp was usually preferred. Since the later valve renaissance of the 90's it seems transformers have regained popularity in some areas albeit at a cost.
Indeed Richard.
I think the transformer option has changed in the years, in as much as we seem to have progressed, at least at the quality end, from the likes of the ortofon (sony) T5 which were an effective and affordable solution but definitely to my ears lacked that bit of extra "sparkle" for want of a better word.
Now it seems to me that step up transformers specifically for MC cartridges are highly developed and costly items, and no surprises there as there really isn't a cheap way to make a good audio transformer.
The issue arises I feel where some MC cartridges seem to interact with the transformers, possibly due to their bieng a complex load comprising of Inductance, DC resistance and a bit of capacitance which might possibly mess about with the frequency response of some MC cartridges, but not all.
I do think my Ortofon Quintets that I have owned seem to synergise better with an active step up stage and that essentially means silicon if a quiet background is to be had. I'm not at all "religious" about solid state versus Valve electronics, all I am interested is how well they do their job at providing a satisfactory performance and allow me to listen to a record with pleasure. I really don't listen to the sound rather I just sit back and if it makes my feet tap then its working.
I wasn't being iffy when I said I didnt think my opinion of "Musicality" was really worth that much. As you point out Richard, there are so many variables that what works in one persons environment may quite possibly sound awful in another. So I concern myself with what can be measured and what obvious differences can be heard.
I've just surfaced from a session of listening to a fairly eclectic selection of old and new vinyl in the new living room and the system seems to be gelling very well with the new dimensions and layout etc, much nicer than the box shaped room I used downstairs until now. There seems a lot more life and bounce to the sound now and I can hear things that were lost in the old room.
I would simply advise Stuart to put a couple of AA cells in, his PLZ will probably be identical to Bob O's which I have on loan and notwithstanding any perceived issues with electrolytics he'll get a flavour of what its all about. Then maybe swap them over. The parts as fitted are bog ordinary, I saw nothing inside that suggested witchcraft or "Special" components and it looked to me like a fairly standard working of the W Marshall leach design. Which is to say it obviously works as intended. i.e. provide a nice flat response without adding any colour to the signal coming from the cartridge.
I made what I feel was the most relevant comparison by comparing it to the Rega fono MC mk2 that I have, which is a very high quality bit of amplification especially at the price and I have seen the circuit diagram and can say it's a well thought out design and uses very good quality parts throughout if not especially "Audiophile" whatever that means.
Anyway I think the modern unit wins but I can't say how the PLZ would sound into a different silicon or Valve phono stage except to say I felt it simply gave me the same flavour of sound as the unit it was plugged into. Which is what I'd want.

A.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 5th July 2019, 02:59 PM
bob orbell bob orbell is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: kettering northants.
Posts: 1,801
Default Re: PLZ pre-preamp

Andy, you say the PLZ is on loan from me, no, I gave it to you, it is yours . you meet the nicest people on a Honda. Bob
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 5th July 2019, 05:29 PM
Black Stuart Black Stuart is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: France
Posts: 1,148
Default Re: PLZ pre-preamp

Andy,
your first comment on the PLZ left me thinking it was negative one, your later comment that 'the background noise is inaudible in real world listening' gives a clearer picture.

My comment about Rega gear is because I, like a lot of others got sucks in by clever marketing and before I really thought about getting into seriously good sounding gear. I bought both the Rega 2 & 3 decks - really crap b/bearings used in each and a crappy little motor. RB250 & RB300 arms - what to say - with either you had to leave both arms with a sloppy fit to get anything like a decent sound. Clever marketting again re. one piece arms - the reality being much, much cheaper to make thatn arms with detachabel h/shells - only good pint, really easy to rewire, which I did using wrapping wire on the RB250 and it sounded better. Anyone interested in both those arms PM me, same goes for the Rega 3, I might borrow a hunting friend's rifle and use it for target practice - could be fun. My take on Rega is that 'a leopard doesn't change it's spots'.

The Kevin Edwards designed MC3 I bought at half price when it looked like the international Ponzi scheme was on the point of collapse - 600 for a two piece phono stage carefully designed and engineered. Almost limitless options for setting up a cartridge and using components no longer available. Maybe just maybe changing the RIAA resistors for Z foil smd types might improve it but at a cost.

I shall try the P7500S with both the MC3 and the PLZ. It wasn't until I happened to come across two threads on Audiogon about LOMM cartridges that I remembered I had bought s/hand both the cartridge and pre-preamp.

Both my AT 33EV and the 7500s would benefit from lowering the arm mass but as I have 2 x Kenwood h/shells and the excellent Kenwood gimbal arm is a doddle to reset I shall try this combo first and then maybe buy a second Analgis h/shell.

It was a long time before I ventured into the world of MCs seeing so much questionable variation on expensive ones. When I saw that an AT 33EV was on offer in a New York store for $299 / 1= $1.70 at the time and having a good friend in Florida who would ship it over after reboxing I couldn't resist. At that time a previous owner of this site was touting a price of 545 and warning about grey imports.

It blew away all MMs I had used up to that time and I had been seriously thinking of buying either an ART 9 (variable production) or a Soundsmith Zephr IF I could find someone in the US to buy either for me and ship on - I will not pay the extortionate prices asked for in Europe + the 20% EU import tax.

Seeing the comments on these LOMM cartrdiges I must try the 7500S first. I may like the PLZ and it might then be worth changing out first the trimpot if I can find out what value it is. The Spanish maker didn't respond to my enquiry. A Bourne one may make an appreciable difference at little cost.

I've had zero time to get on with recapping my 2 KD decks/Heybrook Sextet speakers etc. etc. The bloody garden, doing most of the cooking, shopping and so on due to my wife's health problem and now that has improved I don't feel like wielding a soldering iron when the temperature inside the house is around 29C - life's a bitch - so it goes.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 5th July 2019, 09:46 PM
Greg.'s Avatar
Greg. Greg. is offline
WD Archivist
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 3,255
Default Re: PLZ pre-preamp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Stuart View Post
I've had zero time to get on with recapping my 2 KD decks/Heybrook Sextet speakers etc. etc. The bloody garden, doing most of the cooking, shopping and so on due to my wife's health problem and now that has improved I don't feel like wielding a soldering iron when the temperature inside the house is around 29C - life's a bitch - so it goes.
I’d wait until The temperature cools. Also, do you really need to recap your Kenwood decks? Are the caps showing any sign of stress? If they are currently working well, I’d leave alone until you have a problem. I am happily using a 1980’s Denon DP-80 direct drive and it’s going well. I won’t touch it until something goes wrong.

I would prioritise the crossover rebuild of your Sextets. External mounting, a quality rewire and careful choice of components can bring a very big improvement to sound. Well worth the effort.

Good to hear that Angela is getting better.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright World Designs