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  #21  
Old 5th May 2018, 10:48 AM
John Caswell John Caswell is offline
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Default Re: SME & Garrard

Gentlemen,
Don't let this thread degenerate into a polite but nevertheless "slanging match" re belt/idler/direct drive turntables. I has all been done to death elsewhere. Everyone has their own opinion on which is best, no matter what is being discussed.
With regard to long posts this is difficult, but my own opinion is if it cannot be said in several sentences think about it to try to reduce it.
There is a gentleman on another forum whose answers are often so long I cannot be bothered to read them. I don't think he has anything else to do all day! Maybe I lose a lot of information, but things need to be kept concise and more importantly to the point and readable. I also add that it is drifting off the point that Cadence have bought Garrard.

John

Last edited by John Caswell; 5th May 2018 at 10:50 AM. Reason: Addnl info
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  #22  
Old 5th May 2018, 01:05 PM
Matthew Snell Matthew Snell is offline
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Default Re: SME & Garrard

Greg

I quite understand the frustration, but post length is not limited and there are no settings which might lead the loss of your post. It might - just - be something else???

My apologies for not being able to "fix" the problem.

Matthew
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  #23  
Old 5th May 2018, 01:37 PM
vinylspinner vinylspinner is offline
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Default Re: SME & Garrard

When I actually decide to write and post, my iPad auto saves any text written every few minutes, donít ask me how this is enabled though.
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  #24  
Old 5th May 2018, 02:01 PM
colin.hepburn colin.hepburn is offline
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Default Re: SME & Garrard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Snell View Post
Greg

I quite understand the frustration, but post length is not limited and there are no settings which might lead the loss of your post. It might - just - be something else???

My apologies for not being able to "fix" the problem.

Matthew
Greg and others
Just a line or two on how I avoid losing my text yes it has happened to me as well very annoying

As you all likely know I am dyslexic so it can take me good time. to type out somethingís
And for this resion that Greg experienced I donít type directly in to the forum text box

I Use Word to type my posts and copy and paste. into the forum box so if you lose your text at least you still have it in word saving you time not having to retype it all out again

so time saved and you can repost it
Well thatís how I do it word should help me with spelling and grammar as well but letís know get into that
Colin
PS i just got this error when posting this
Error 503 Backend fetch failed
Backend fetch failed

Guru Meditation:
XID: 447746

Varnish cache server
__________________
The Blues man
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  #25  
Old 5th May 2018, 02:55 PM
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Shane Shane is offline
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Default Re: SME & Garrard

Whenever I need to post a long answer on a forum I write it in a notepad, then copy and paste into the forum page. This has prevented the world from being deprived of my extended wisdom on a number of occasions.

Baggo, Iím definitely with Greg on this one. 301s, 401s and Lencos have attributes that most belt drive turntables miss, mostly best described as stability, solidity and drive, but they must be mounted in a suitable plinth. Ironically, probably the worst thing you could do is mount them in an SME2000 plinth system which was the fashion in the 70s, and made everything sound like it was recorded in the Kingsway Hall at peak hour on the Northern line.
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  #26  
Old 5th May 2018, 11:07 PM
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Baggy Trousers Baggy Trousers is offline
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Default Re: SME & Garrard

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Caswell View Post
Gentlemen,
Don't let this thread degenerate into a polite but nevertheless "slanging match" re belt/idler/direct drive turntables. I has all been done to death elsewhere. Everyone has their own opinion on which is best, no matter what is being discussed.
With regard to long posts this is difficult, but my own opinion is if it cannot be said in several sentences think about it to try to reduce it.
There is a gentleman on another forum whose answers are often so long I cannot be bothered to read them. I don't think he has anything else to do all day! Maybe I lose a lot of information, but things need to be kept concise and more importantly to the point and readable. I also add that it is drifting off the point that Cadence have bought Garrard.

John
I shall retire with apology for my prolixity.
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  #27  
Old 6th May 2018, 03:58 PM
John Caswell John Caswell is offline
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Default Re: SME & Garrard

Baggy,
Don't worry about it.

John
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  #28  
Old 6th May 2018, 10:56 PM
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Greg. Greg. is offline
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Default Re: SME & Garrard

With all due respect, John, the fact that you, me or some others here have previously read elsewhere discussions considering the differences between DD, idler drive and belt driven turntables is not relevant. If the topic appears here yet again, it is because someone wants to know more about it. If we are an accomodating forum, there will always be the likelihood that topics are revisited and old ground is covered again and again and again. That is the nature of forums which have a fluid and ever changing active membership. That it has been done to death, I feel you need to consider it hasn’t happened here previously and in any case, we have an evolving membership, many of whom may never have read anything regarding this topic. We do need to be current on the forum, meeting the needs or discussing whatever is any issue effecting any member at any time.

Furthermore, this thread has outstanding matters to be resolved in that I have agreed to partake in an experiment in conjunction with Bob, the outcome of which will be of much interest to many. Therefore, rather than encourage the closure of the discussion, I suggest it should be readily embraced and the thread should be allowed to run within the bounds of forum rules and basic civil decency.

On the specifics of what I wanted to say in response to Baggo, Shane has done it in a rather neat way, and I don’t need to replicate what he has said.
My question to Baggo though, is why does a design have to be a perfect solution? Very few designs are exclusively that. The Manx Norton or the BSA Gold Star were fantastic performers, but they weren’t perfect. For sure they rattled and vibrated. The users and observers just ignored the short comings and concentrated, even emphasised the positive qualities, ignoring the inadequacies. The rubber mounting of the Norton Commando engine was an ok solution. It acknowledged the twin would rattle, but found a way to make it usable. At the time, the issue was more about competing with Japanese imports which were more balanced from an engineering perspective.

The Garrard TT is no different. The difference today, however is that the company did not realise that there was a fix to deal with all the energy the motor generated when in operation at the time of production, and a fix has been discovered subsequently, mainly through the DIY community although a few companies have jumped on the band wagon with a view to making some capital out of it.

Consequence for me is that my 401 is mounted in a big slab of Snowdonian Welsh Blue Slate. This is the hardest slate in the world and has natural CLD properties because of the way slate was created. Layers and layers of mud silt in water laid down over thousands of years, later subjected to geological heat and pressure creating what I am now using. It is a remarkable substance that has inadvertently been found to work really well for draining the energy found in old Garrard turntables.

I don’t have a problem with taking a design which has several limitations in terms of performance and then applying a set of fixes that makes that design really usable. I think old Baggo has been a bit simplistic in his arguement. Surely, a bit of compromise and influential application can make something that did not work, actually work. That is what I and others have done and we are the happier (system wise) for it

Last edited by Greg.; 6th May 2018 at 11:07 PM.
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  #29  
Old 7th May 2018, 02:32 PM
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Shane Shane is offline
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Default Re: SME & Garrard

Got the long posts sorted then, Greg!

Not sure if this link will work without logging into Facebook but I came across an interesting mod that Tim de P. did to a 301 that would also be applicable to the 401. Makes sense to me.

https://www.facebook.com/tim.deparav...09967369036027
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  #30  
Old 8th May 2018, 09:11 AM
Richard Richard is offline
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Default Re: SME & Garrard

This pic is dated 2009 when my friend Gerry B brought round his 401 in a solid wooden plinth for a listen and to compare cartridges. He had a new Jelco 750 arm and Denon 103R on it. My TD 160 Super has a Formula 4 and Denon DL160. The DL160 sounded better in that instance/system - more detailed, open, and refined.

We didn't have any problem with hum or rumble. They were both very good and we still both use the same decks. Gerry has a couple of carts he swaps in for a change with an ATOC5 being a favourite and probably much livlier than either of the others. Heard that in his system and it sounds great
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File Type: jpg 401TD160.jpg (46.2 KB, 19 views)
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